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Confused about my unknown vintage Cleveland
Well, I am really a newbie to this but I just acquired an old Cleveland with a head badge that says 455 and a serial number on the seat post that reads, NR (then maybe "C") 066. It's a woman's bike with a very fancy chain guard. Does anyone know anything about this bike especially year and maybe even value? Since the photo was taken, I found tubes and the tires which look original are now up firm. Obviously, the light is not original. Any help out there?
It's in great shape.
Does it say made in Toronto or Weston Ontario If it say Weston it was made after 1918. Nice original looking bike.
It looks like it says Weston. I'll post a pic of the head badge.
Robert, I am Marc from Ottawa. Brian Reynolds (hopefully he will pipe-in soon) has a very similar bicycle. I sold it to him about 3 years ago.
His has a serial number of 028. A few of us had established it was likely made in 1917. Yours will depend on whether it was made in Toronto (1917 and older) or Weston (1918 and newer).
TMar is also very knowledgeable on the years these were made, so hopefully he will chime-in too and correct my mistakes, if I miss-spoke.
The most valuable, and fragile piece on your bike is likely the chain guard. The wrapping around the chain is made of oak, probably painted over.
The rear rack, saddle, mudguards, crank arms and chain ring look original from what I can see-which will increase the value.
Pedals, grips, light, are not original. The rest is hard to say without close ups.
Are the rims wood or metal?
Can you take a picture of the back and front Hub? If there is writing on them, that would help!
As for value, it all depends on how many pieces are original, but also how much in love people are with it.
I (and that is me) would value at 500CAD, at minimum. But everybody is different, and price will vary based on market, demand, etc.
But please wait until somebody else also provides an opinion before confirming what I am saying.
Brian, TMar, can you help Robert?
Marc from Ottawa.
The Weston factory actually opened for production in very early 1917, so that's the oldest it should be. The serial number is interesting. I've never seen one from this era with a dual or triple alpha prefix. Regardless, it should still be pre-1921, when the standard serial number format was introduced. To corroborate the date range it has the 1st generation Triplex hanger/crankset.
Very nice bike! I can't see in the photo but I'm sure the rear fender has holes in it for lacing a skirt guard. I have the same model bike plus its male partner. Go to the search feature and type Happy 100th Birthday to see the pics and write-up. With serial number 028 I've concluded it's probably a 1917 model.
I don't know what to make of your serial number, except to say the letters might really be numbers. If they really are letters they may have been stamped in later as an anti-theft ID number. You can see a photo of my bike's number in that other forum thread. I'd love to see your bike in person. In which city are you?
p.s. I agree with the others on year and value: 1917-1920 or 21, and $500. If the original number is 066 then it's a 1917 like mine. Your rims are steel and might be later replacements for original wood rims. The hubs might provide the answer to that question. An original rear hub will say NEW HERCULES and no brake arm.
The lamp is an acetylene gas lamp, which works by water dripping on calcium carbide powder, and a nice period-correct accessory.
Lamp is worth $100 or more, in addition to bike's value.
First, I can't say "thanks" enough for your help. A few things and I can post better close-ups. The rear hub does say NEW HERCULES and there is no brake arm. The rims are steel with rivets all around on both fenders.
The fancy chain guard appears is metal and I have not seen any indication of any wood. Re hand grips. I believe the leather one to be original and of course, the left is not. I am going to a very large bike swap meet this morning in Seattle hoping to spot one.
The lamp is held in place by a copper band which is not original. The 28" tires are very old and though some cracking is evident, the new tubes keep them up. One tire is a Dunlop Samson Studded.
The paint is remarkable, wheels are rust-free and run true. I believe the seat to be original as well, though one side has some degradation.
You have a very nice bike Robert. If you have a magnet, run it where I am showing with the arrows. the top part is what I beleived to be oak. The magnet should not stick.
It's possible that some or all of the bike has been repainted. I say this because some of the pin stripes do not look factory original. They look a bit unevenly applied. There also seems to be a speck of paint at the top of the head badge. A repaint could explain how the wood portion of the chain guard (assuming it is wood like mine) ended up black. It's still a really nice bike. Enjoy!
Sorry for the delay in getting back. The chain guard is all metal, both pieces. Regarding the pinstripe appearing wavy, it's two things: a bit of a slight twist in the fender and a bit of camera angle. All striping appears as original. I'm sure there's been some repainting The chain guard definitely has been.
Thanks for posting about the chainguard. I've never seen that style of guard in all-metal before and didn't know they exist. This certainly makes yours a later version, around 1920. CCM switched to "dropside" fenders and a newer style half-chainguard in the early '20s. You can see the changes in the 1924 catalogue posted in the catalogue forum on this site.
Interesting that I do not see model 455 as seen on my head badge. I truly believe the front tire is the original as it matches tread pattern and bears the Dunlop Samson Studded name. Upon closer exam, some of the pin striping does look redone. I do notice by the options shown in the '24 Catalogue the headlight, luggage rack and stand were available. My headlight is missing the correct mounting bracket
Sometime after your bike was made, CCM dropped model numbers and switched to a 1 piece badge (with a backing plate). I don't know exactly when but this badge came off a B-code 1922 mens CCM with a "camelback" frame and dropside fenders.
Here are some model numbers from Cleveland brochures. !914 (not dated my guess) mens model No. 425. 1924 dated on cover, mens No. 466 ladies No. 467. 1925 dated on cover, mens No. 476 ladies No. 477. These numbers might sugest 1923.
Just found in 1917 to 1922 catalogues, Cleveland ladies Roadster Model No. 455 grade A equipment. The 1916 catalogue is missing the appropriot page. According to the model numbers your bike was made between, possibly 1916, likly 1917 and 1922. Even with catalogues in hand it is hard to date bikes acuratly. There are no model numbers in the 1923 catalogue.
Hope this helps.
Ron