Has anyone ever seen a Flyte with....

There is a Flyte pictured on the Australian Cycling Forum with a cottered crank. Surprisingly, the cottered axle looks original since the frame appears to be made for a cottered axle and not a Triplex crank.

John Williamson

Well my buddy finally sent the pics of the Flyte with cottered axle.... note the Cleveland head badge...

Wayne

I was expecting to see cottered cranks on a conversion spindle in a 2" BB shell, which it obviously is not!  Given the other sample was found in Australia, maybe this was a design change to accommodate foreign market preferences? After all, the pre-1928 domestic models used wooden rims, but the  Australian market CCM product I've seen from that period always seem to have steel rims. Candian industry was heavily influenced by  the USA but Australia would be more likely to follow English tastes, which favoured cottered cranksets. Just a thought.

Looks like it has a 5 pin chainring. Note the back side of the chainring. Very unique bike.

Also check out the head badge.... exactly like a CCM of the time but with "CLEVELAND" instead of the CCM

Up until circa 1943, you could buy many CCM models in five additional head badges -  Cleveland, Columbia, Massey, Perfect or Red Bird. This was homage to four of the five companies that had founded CCM. For some unknown reason the 5th founding company, Gendron, which had manufactured Gendron and Reliance bicycles was dropped sometime after the Great War. Columbia, was the major brand of the National Cycle & Automobile Co. Ltd., which was the American comglomerate whose move into Canada had prompted the formation of CCM. When CCM bought them out, they acquired the Canadian rights to their brands. Then, of course, there were a myriad of lesser CCM owned brands, that came and went over the years.

Hi TMar,

I thought that it was closer to 1940 when all of the separate head badges disappeared.

John Williamson

T-Mar, do you know anything about the Overland badge name? I have a 1934 CCM Overland, with paperwork that states it was purchased new from Sears. I know about the Willys-Overland automobile built in CCM's former Toronto Junction factory (Originally Lozier bicycle plant) until the 30's, but I don't know how or why CCM produced an Overland bicycle. There are a couple of other posts about this on this site but no answers. I have been guessing that maybe it was an exclusive brand CCM offered to Sears, or that maybe it was a small tribute to CCM's old connections to Willys-Overland made after the car company ceased operations, but that's all just speculation. 

John, the optional head badges (or nameplates as CCM called them) were definitely still available as late as the 1941 model year, based on my literature. As for 1942, a couple of samples with optional nameplates have surfaced.in the past year. This is quite clear in my mind because the xH-codes didn't  correlate to our understanding of the serial number codes at the time. All that got resolved when you kindly reprinted the VIM information.

Brian, yes I've seen a few Overland.but can't provide too much info. What I do know is that it was a CCM owned brand, as opposed to a contract manufactured private label. This is supported by the fact that the head badges on the extant samples actually state Canada Cycle & Motor. I've been able to trace it's use, for bicycles, back to at least 1932. Near as I can tell, that's just about the time that Willys-Overland Canada shut down. I know that there were corporate ties with CCM, so maybe it somehow cleared the use of the name for a bicycle brand by CCM? Of course that's just speculation. I've seen Overland that are reportedly as late as 1945. I also know that the brand passed over to Velo-Sport/Procycle after the bankruptcy, though, to the best of my knowledge, they never actively employed it.

CCM brands continue to pop up on a fairly reglular basis. I believe my list of them is up to around thirty and that's not counting contract manufactured, private label brands!

I wonder if the Overland name entered the public domain after the Willys-Overland Canada closure in 1932/33, or perhaps CCM picked up the rights to the Overland name for a song.

T-Mar, your list of 30+ brands and private label brands, were they names CCM owned, or were they all names that actually appeared on bikes? Have you already posted them elsewhere on this site? If not, could you please post your list (under a new heading)? I'd love to see it.

Brian, the approximatey 30 brands were actually used on bicycles. About 80% were compiled from extant catalogues and/or surviving bicycles with badges that state Canada Cycle & Motor on them. The remaining 20% come from NMST research. Including private label brands that were contract manufactured by CCM would increase the list significantly. It may take me a while to get it togther, as I'll have to go through my list of Canadian bicycle brands and manufacturers, which is up to about 350 names!

The automobiles were marketed as Willys-Knight, so there was probably always an opportunity to use the Overland name on bicycles, at least technically. However, due to the corporate ties, there was probably some gentleman's agrreement not to use it, so as not to offend the American partner. Once the automobile business was sold, it would have opened the door, so to speak. Again, I have no objective evidence to support this. It's  just a theory, based on the circumstantial evidence.

When you have time, it would be great to see the list, thanks! If/when you post it, perhaps members could post photos of their different bike's nameplates, to see if we can find one example of each. Maybe there will be a few that nobody has a surviving example of.

Here is an Overland Head Badge. Made for a Western Canadian Hardware store by CCM

John Williamson

Is the cottered crank shown on the Flyte the CCM Crown C cottered crank?

John Williamson

The crankset isn't a Crown 'C'. It's the CCM manufactured English Standard Hanger, which was a predecessor to the UEK. As previously mentioned by Oldy57, you can see in the photo that the chainring is bolted to a flange on the spindle and not held in place by a spindle cone/nut like on the Crown 'C'. You can also also plainly see that the non-drive side features an inward facing adjustable cup with a locking that threads onto the cup, unlike the Crown 'C', which uses an outward facing stationary cup with an adjustable cone and lockring that threads onto the spindle.

As for the head badge, that is very interesting, though not necessarily surprising. Do you know the vintage of the Marshall-Wells Overland? Here's a picture of a CCM Overland badge owned by CPTNHWDY69. Note that it states Canada Cycle & Motor on the badge.

Sorry, attachments didn't work.

great info T-Mar, tks

I like the fact that you actually base your write-ups on actual facts found in your documentation and not just on I KNOW because I KNOW

as far as the bike in question, the owner definately knows what he has, as far as a Flyte

as I see that he has lenghten the rear fender by adding an extra brace close to the BB

also being a repeint, there is the possibility of a badge change to make it a little more interesting (ie: different) as the holes on the 2 hole Cleveland badge probably (i don't have one on hand to compare) do match-up to the regular CCM badge

Sorry T-Mar, you are right about the crank. I must have been asleep when I looked at all of the previous information that was posted. I am not sure about the age of the Marshall Wells head badge. My best guess is the mid to late 1930's. By 1940, Marshall Wells was using a "Zenith" head badge on their CCM made bicycles.

John Williamson