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Help to identity this bike please
Hi there,
I recently picked up a vintage bicycle. I have been a bike guy since I was a kid and worked as a bicycle mechanic for years and now as a schoolteacher have taught thousands of students bicycle mechanics over 20 years. I am by no means a bicycle "collector" OR vintage bike expert. I have however seen many different bicycles over 30 years of working on them. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE vintage bicycles, but simply don't have the room to keep them. I do however collect Bicycle license plates from all over Canada. I have hundreds
I was recently in search of a plate attached to a vintage bicycle. The seller would not remove the plate, so I purchased the entire bike as it was good deal overall for the plate and bike. It is extremely interesting and an image search revealed that it might be a CCM rambler? I'm hoping someone would be able to confirm OR identify this for me.
I know a few things about it. It was used as a prop in a film set. It is not original paint as I can see the runs. The paint is interesting however, as all of the pinstripes were added. I'm not sure about the wheels but they look professionally done. Also pinstriped double on both sides. It has a frame repair at the head tube/ tub tube lug. It has a Mesinger springer saddle. It is a three speed SA Sturmey Archer internal hub drum brake combination made in England, which is what is throwing me off from the CCM lead. The brakes are flipped which also indicates that it comes from overseas. The chain ring does not have the traditional CCM on it, that most bikes of this era have. I believe the hub is from 1951. The license plate was also from 1951. But is from Calgary and if the bike is from overseas, that doesn't make a lot of sense. I have a serial number that says 3S3126 and is located on the seat tube top tube lug.
Any help or general comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance for your time.
Donde
The bike was built in 1947.
Like anything, parts were likley replaced over time. Remember, its 74 years old !
Photos would help instantly identify a bike.
Amazing. So it's a 1947 CCM Rambler? Curious how you figured that out? Should I send any additional photos?
I found the chart.
any idea of value? Or recommendations for what I should do with it?
It was a prop in the CBC series Fortunate Son???
like I said, I only bought it for plate.
Thanks again for any future comments.
With the frame repair and it being repainted, that would lower the value quite a bit.
It isn't something I have interest in but others might.
There may be parts other need making it worth it to buy.
I don't think it has much value but others may.
Location would make the price change as well.
You should state where the bike is located.
Donde
Could you email me about your license plate collection
56belvedere@gmail.com
Thank you
The bike is located in Calgary. I'm not sure if I necessarily even want to sell it as I realize it doesn't have a lot of value. It just seems super cool and the mix of English componentry from 1951 and the frame from just a few years prior is keeping it a mystery. That as well as the American saddle which might be worth resurfacing.
My question to you all I was would you restore it? Or is the frame repair not worth that? Just ride it as is? sell????
I would just ride ,it put a set of grips on the bars and if the tires are okay ride it as it does have 3 speeds. If it needs tires that should not be a problem getting a set.
Dave
While there is no doubt that the frame was manufactured by CCM, I'd question whether it was branded CCM. I'm used to seeing the UEK cranksets on the economal brands, such as Cadet, Cyco and those manufactured for clients, such as the various chain stores. Typically, the UEK cranksets used the small diameter, threaded bottom bracket shell, so it should be easy to tell if it's OEM.
Also, I'm not seeing rivet holes for a metal head badge, suggesting it used a decal/sticker. For this period, that would not be typical for a CCM branded bicycle.
I really appreciate the comment. That's interesting that CCM made bikes for others and did not brand them CCM. I thought that was a relatively new practice.
Did they ever send them overseas for any UK manufacturers? I am wondering what that componentry is doing on the bicycle? It is certainly an upgrade from the single speed. Were these parts are readily available in Canada at the time to switch like that? Or do you think that it started on the bike from the beginning? Like Duomatic mentioned it is 75 years old, so it could have seen numerous variations come and go. I wonder if it started out as a single speed and due to the change to the 3pd it needed a new crank?? Very curious bike. Interesting paint job. Double pinstriped rims....
anyway, thanks again!
Donde
Those hubs where available on CCM bicycles.
As noted by Dave, the hubs were available in Canada at the time. In fact, they appear in 1940s CCM catalogues, indicating that the they could have been factory installed as an option. However, given that the frame pre-dates the hubs by a full four years, they would appear to be an aftermaket, owner upgrade. The interesting thing is that the owner appears to have had the wheels rebuilt using the OEM rims.
The practice of contract manufacturing bicycles for other companies without their own manufacturing operatons goes back to the early days of the bicycle industry in the very late 19th century and CCM was an early practitioner. CCM also exported bicycles from their very early days. Many of the companies that merged to form CCM in 1899 already had foreign sales departments which CCM took over. To give an appreciation of CCM's global reach, in the 1947 company history, Merrill Denison wrote, "At the outbreak of war in 1939 CCM, in addition to it's American subisidiary, had sales representatives in 43 countries".
While there are no extant CCM figures, government statistics show that Canada exported 4,378 bicycles in 1947. Given that CCM was, by far, Canada's largest bicycle manufacturer at the time, it's relatively safe to assume that the vast majority of these were CCM manufacture. While it's possible this was a foreign market model, with the cottered crankset being a concession to European preferences, I'm still leaning towards this being a contract manufactured model for a Canadian company, with the hub upgrades being aftermarket.
It would be nice to know if the frame has a small diameter bottom bracket, with a Bayliss Wiley fitted, or a regular (large) CCM bottom bracket that someone has fitted a cottered axle to. If it has a small diameter bottom bracket, then it was probably made for a cottered crank. CCM made quite a few regular style bikes from about 1940 on with cottered axles and UEK English cranks. This may have been related to what was available during the war. Some of these bikes made by CCM carried X serial numbers. From the pictures, it is not clear what the bottom bracket is. If this bike is a 1947, CCM may have been using up old stock. This is just speculation on my part.
I can't thank you all enough for the comments and sharing your knowledge with me. I have been working with bikes for over 30 years, but honestly the vintage bikes, especially internal gearing and drum brakes have always intimidated me. I have just avoided these types of things and have never really gotten into vintage bicycles because of that. The curiosity of this bicycle has really set in with me and I would like to get to the bottom of this interesting bike as much as possible.
The bottom bracket is a small normal modern day looking shell size. I have included a picture.
Sorry I'm not sure where that picture came from. This is not my bicycle
If you click on the picture of this fork, my bottom bracket comes up. I'm not sure what just happened there.
I also have another question. Why would the gears and brakes be swapped? Was that standard practice in the 40s in North America or just overseas? Where the right hand brake lever controls the front? And vice versa?
After the war, and starting around 1948, there was a big export drive in England. This included Sturmey Archer. A lot of bikes with coaster brakes were converted to 3-speeds with drum brakes. Often only the back hub was swapped, but sometimes both front and back were swapped. This became sort of the thing to do. My wife's father converted his 1940 CCM in this manner in the late '40's. I also picked up a 1939 CCM Road Racer that had both front and rear hubs swapped for Sturmey Archers. This went on until around 1952, and most of the Sturmey Archer hubs like this found in Canada have manufacturing dates between 1948 and 1952. I have a box of these hubs out in my shed that have been salvaged from various CCM's. Over time, the linings for the brakes get dry and harden, leading to poor brake performance. When new, these brakes worked quite well.
With everything I've found out about this Bicycle, I can't just let it go to someone else. I'm going to have to find room to store it. My understanding is that most people are removing these hubs and releasing with original parts. To me, this just adds to an incredible story and journey this Bicycle has been on which I hope to continue.
i've found out about this bicycle, I can't just let it go to someone else. I'm going to have to find room to store it. My understanding is that most people are removing these hubs and releasing with original parts. To me, this just adds to an incredible story and journey this Bicycle has been on which I hope to continue.
Once again, I am very appreciative of everyone's time and knowledge.
If anyone has any Bicycle license plates from anywhere in Canada, I am more than happy to pay what they're worth. Please let me know if anyone is interested in parting with any that they might have found on their CCM bicycle collecting journey. Please reach me at ldonde@calgaryacademy.com
stay well everyone and all the very best.
Donde
I was looking through some old catalogues and I can confirm that this style of UEK crank was supplied by CCM. It probably originally came with a Bayliss Wiley sleeved bottom bracket.
The BB shell measures 46mm
The outside of my 1947 CCM single piece crank bottom bracket measured 58.65 mm, 12 mm larger (cansdian tire didgital caliper) the 2 bikes are both serial number 3S and only 1815 numbers difference in sequence.
So what do you make of that? Strange that bike built so closely together would have two different size shells? Mine has a grease port.
Also, I am trying my hand at recovering the Mesinger saddle on the bike. When I pulled it off of the post I discovered a wine cork shoved into the top of the seat post. That must have been a way of keeping water from getting inside of the seat tube. How cool. Has anyone ever come across this?
The post
V It was very common to find a cork in the top of CCM seat posts.
CCM had two different bottom bracket shell diameters during this era. They were named 1-7/16" and 2". Note that these measurements are based on the inside diameter of the shell. Which shell was used depended on the intended crankset, which was in turn based on the intended use and target price of the bicycle.
The small diameter shell indicates that the subject UEK crankset is almost certainly OEM. The UEK crankset (which was English sourced) was typically used by CCM on the lower priced models. CCM used it on their economical Cadet brand and it was also installed on their junior and sidewak bicycles. It can also be seen on contract built brands of the era, such as Supercycle. All of these cases are lower priced bicycles.
CCM did have some better models that used the small diameter shell but they were racing or sports models with horizontal top tubes and featuring CCM branded chainwheels. They were typically designed for multiple gears, using either internally geared hubs or derailleurs and freewheels. Consequently, they were designed for caliper brakes and employed flat walled, Endrick style rims.
The subject bicycle is a post war, adult, camelback frame with Westwood rims. The hubs are an obvious later addition. Taking everything into consideration, I can't imagine this being a CCM branded bicycle and not having a large diameter shell, CCM branded chainwheel and rivet holes for a metal head badge. In my opinion, the evidence still points to a non-CCM branded, contract manufactured bicycle.
That's incredibly useful information. You should be paid for your services. You are very knowledgable and I simply can't thank you all enough for your time and help. Being a teacher, I will now bring this bicycle into work and will force this history down my students throats. I'm still a little hesitant to tackle the rear hub but it has now become a single speed. I have done a few dozen saddles now and decided to tackle the Heniger. I added some grips which I hope are close to the proper ones, that I found in my parts bin.
A few more
I found a chain ring today going through my parts bin. It is obviously a CCM but I can't remember where I pulled it from. I'm wondering if anybody can help me figure this out. Also, it seems like it is offset and not flat. Is this normal or is it bent? Thank you again for all of the help I've received so far.
And with this work on my bicycle above?