New guy with some questions about CCM threaded cogs

As far as I am aware, the Patent 1937 hubs only had two cogs available, an 18T and a 20T. There are lots of these hubs around if you need one. Also, it seems that some Perry sprockets may fit as well. I have no idea what the threading is.

I think that I have some 16T cogs that were made by CCM as well.

John Williamson

Thank you, Cbgimse and John! I will try a post to the "wanted" for a 20T cog. If I find the threading specs, I'll let you know in case you are curious. Cheers, Alex.

Hey John, What bikes were the 16T sprockets used on?

Alex, I have three complete hubs posted in the for sale forum

Hi Cbgimse,

I am not sure if the 16T sprocket came as standard equipment on any CCM bikes, but they were available. I have a few, some are NOS, and they are clearly stamped CCM. I know that the sprckets used on some early American hubs will also fit CCM hubs.

John Williamson

I just joined the site. I am looking to restore my Dads racer which he raced for the Victor Cycling Club. At the moment I am just trying to buff up some parts....chains, front and back sprocets which are all loose in an basket. I have a wooden rim to work on along with some lightweight rims. My dad has Alzheimers but I know he would appreciate me putting some elbow grease into his bike and restoring it. Looking forward to getting some advice in the future.

Welcome to the site.Sounds like a neat project and you should be able to get lots of help from this site. 

Dave

Welcome. Your dad would be pleased. We'd love to see photos of your peoject!

Here it is, any help with identifcation would be appreciated. 

Pics, attached

Thanks

Beautiful! The second digit looks like a B, so that would make it 1938 according to the serial number chart you can find online.

CCM Flyer, but I'm not sure which version.

This is indeed a great looking bike. The frame is a custom built professional Flyer with a short wheelbase. Note the small clearances between the front wheel and the down tube, and the back wheel and the seat tube. It was the short wheelbase version built for track use. It was probably chrome plated after it cme from the factory. Hopefully this was properly done, because polishing and Hydrogen Embrittlement can weaken the frame tubes (Accles and Pollock in this case). The frames for the Professional Racer were extremely well made. It probably came with wooden rims and tubular tires originally. Some of the parts appear to have been switched over the years but this is the way your dad rode the bike. Greasing the bearings, truing the wheels, and checking the tires may be all it needs. It is a great tribute to your father.

John Williamson

Another thing that makes the clearances so small may be the fact that the original wooden rims were for tubular tires which are basically 700C (622mm rim bead diameter), while the wheels that are on it now appear to be for 27 X 1 1/4 tires, which fit on a rim with a bead diameter of 630mm.. Although small, this may add a few millimetres to the overall wheel diameter.

John Williamson

windbreak

interested in the bike if you want to sell, contact me : max_dc(at)hotmail(dot)com

jdwillia

I have one wooden rim at the moment. It's a back rim with three sprockets on the hub. The tire is, I guess glued to the rim...should be interesting getting that thing off. At the moment buffing up another rim (using WD 40 and fine steel wool)...it is a Dunlop 27 x 1 1/4 special light weight rim ( made in england)....Here's a question....to clean and regrease the hub should I despoke the rim or be a lazy guy and leave the spokes in...some spokes have corroded..2 missing. Whats the best way to clean a hub when you take the axle out and bearings....regrease with what after cleaning? Thanks for your input.

bicyclecollector

Sorry not interested in selling. 

Photo of an autographed pic of Lance Pugh and Billy Hamilton (Victor Cycling Club) who participated in the 1948 London Olympics. It was in my Dad's scap book. Hamilton had his signature on it but the pen didnt write but it indented the paper with his signature. 

Included is 2 pages of a race brochure.

Hi WindBreak29

You asked a couple of questions about wheels and rims. If I had to clean up the wheel with the wooden rim, 3 sprockets, and tubular tire, I would leave it intact as much as possible and do only what is absolutely necessary. I have cleaned the grease off of the outside of spoked hubs using a wire brush. You should be able to reach inside the spokes with a long handled brush (if you can find one with brass bristles, this is even better. Another possibility is using a high pressure car wash on only the hub. If you do this you will need to make sure that the freewheel is dry and well lubricated afterwards (you can spray with WD (Water Displacement) 40. Try not to get the wooden rim too wet if you go this route - if it gets wet make sure you dry it well. The axle, bearings, and cones can be removed from the hubs. These parts can be soaked in solvent and cleaned up. The bearing surfaces inside the hub can usually be cleaned of old dirt and grease using an SOS pad. Once this is done, it also needs to be well dried.

I am not sure if you want the wooden rimmed wheel to use, or for display (probably just display). Check to see if the tubular (sew-up) tire that is glued on still, by some miracle, holds air. If so, you can give it some shape by keeping a small amount of air in it (it will have a Presta valve and you will need an adapter to use a regular pump). If at all possible, keep the old tire since tubulars have changed a lot over the years in both size and appearance. If this tire is all black, but has perished and you need a replacemant, I can probably offer you a vintage tire to replace it. I would not remove the spokes from this wheel in an attempt to replace them. I am sure many people on Vintage CCM have discovered that finding spokes of the right guage and appearance is getting to be very difficult. Your wooden wheel probably has butted or swaged spokes. This means that the spokes are thinner in the middle than at the ends. Using this type of spoke was standard practice on lightweight wheels in the past. It has a slight effect on the overall weight of the wheel, but a significant effect on how the spoke might fail. Typical butted spokes in the old days were 15/17 or 14/16 gauge. The tire on your wheel may be glued on with shellac, which can make it much harder to remove. Modern tubulars are mounted with tubular rim cement or Tufo tape. I think that you said that a couple of spokes were missing. Were the nipples left in place? If they were, and you can manage to remove any bits of spoke that are still threaded into the nipples, you should be able to replace the spokes quite easily, paying attention to gauge and threading, as well as appearance. If this is not possible, you may be able to lift off smaller sections of the tire and insert replacement nipples. The nipples used on wooden rims are usually longer than regular nipples (often 1") and are harder to find. Here again. I might be able to help you with some matching nipples. Spoking wooden rims is trickier than steel or aluminum rims. When you are approaching the point where the wooden rim is close to having the proper tension, it is fairly easy to overshoot and start to turn the whole rim into a figure 8.

The Dunlop "Special Lightweight" 27 X 1 1/4 rims were available from CCM by the mid to late '30's. CCM sold them with 36 spokes, but in the UK they were also available in 32 and 40 holes. They were fairly light but were prone to rim "blips" and rusting on the braking surfaces. It sounds like you are already working on ceaning this rim up. I am not sure if you are going to make it into a wheel, or just display it. I may have some of these rims as well. You also asked about grease. For display, you can use almost any fairly thin grease to repack the bearings. If I am riding something, I always use a small tube of synthetic grease that can be found at Canadian Tire, to minimize friction.

I hope this helps. Good luck with your restoration!

John Williamson

let me know if thinks change, definitely a bike worth the $$$

Thanks John. Your info is most appreciated and helpful. I will put your suggestions to practice.

Bicyclecollector

The bike is a keepsake to remember my Dad when he passes. I enjoy riding so I look forward to a pleasure ride on a sunny day with the bike. i wouldnt part with it. Thanks for your interest.

Hi Cbgimse and others. I think I may have solved the cog issue. I have modified an old worn out and broken CCM cog into an adapter that allows me to use a modern six-bolt "Problem Solver" track cog on a 1937 or 1926 CCM hub. The only altered part is the adapter - the rest of the hub is stock, including the CCM locking ring. I will lace it up and test it to see how it works, but it seems promising. Thanks for your comments.

Looks like that should work just fine. I saw in a catalog recently  that CCM cogs were available in a range of sizes. The hard part is finding one bc most bikes came with 18T or 22T so practically anything else would had to have been special order. 

I hope so. If it works, then the selection of tooth counts may be better for the modern cogs. I think that the Problem Solver cogs may go up to 24t, in one- or two-tooth increments. I found a 19t in stock locally, but I had hoped for a 20t. I may have to order online to get the full selection. The adapter that I made must be thinned down a bit to account for the width of the cog (so that the lock ring is not crowded off of its threads). So I built it for a 3/32 cog width, but I think another 1/32 could come off, allowing a 1/8 cog. I will also keep my eyes peeled for Perry cogs. NOS is a lot less effort than home-fabrication. : )

If this picture come thru you can see there were sprockets from 7-24T available at one time

Interesting. Thanks for this parts listing. I suspect, given the diameter limitations, that those cogs with 7 to 12 teeth were most likely 1" pitch instead of 1/2" pitch - so essentially equivalent in ratios to the other 14 to 24 tooth cogs. Interesting to see that the cogs were available in both 3/16 and 1/8 inch thicknesses. Just like now, it seems that what the manufacturer was willing to offer is typicaly far more than what makes it into the shops...I have never seen an old 3/16 cog, much less any tooth count beyond 18 and 20. By the way, my adapter works perfectly - but the shops only stock a limited range of tooth counts for these current cogs. What comes around goes around!

Do you know where I might find a complete image of this parts list? (i.e. where the left margin is not clipped) It is very good information! Thanks again.

Found one - Thanks!