old CCM in great condition

CCM in great condition. Ooooops. here are the photos.

I'm not convinced this is a CCM product. let alone something from 1921. A 1921 would not have a white tail and reflector on the rear fender. The chain guard is the wrong the style. The rear hub appears to have a brake arm. as opposed to the armless version used in 1921.  A mattress saddle would be incorrect. The rims are steel, as opposed to wood. The bright parts appear to be chrome, as opposed to nickel plated. While some parts could have been changed, there is just too much that is incorrect for 1921.

Assuming the bicycle is a CCM, there is a possibility that the leading serial number character was dropped and it is xA8654, which would make it 1937 production. This is much more in line with what I'm seeing. The head decal in conjunction with the cottered crankset style would indicate a private label brand. Still, I 've never seen a chain guard of that style on a CCM product. The headset, though not well imaged, also doesn't look like a CCM product. Conceivably both could have been changed out but there remains those blocky head lugs. I don't recall a CCM with anything like them. 

 In this case, you will find that the frame is a 1921 CCM ( on which parts have been added/ replaced, as Tom stated); the dead giveaway is the remnants of the headbadge.This "beaver head badge' water slide decal is near and dear to my heart as I spent a couple of years research and production of an accurate copy.  This decal/transfer was an option from 1921 to 1925 incl, in addition to the diamond and other metal badges available at the time.

 Don Farmer has a 1921 mens double bar motorbike model with this  badge.  As well, my 1921 Flyer was originally equipped with this badge.  There are a number of other bikes out there which have been repainted,thus the badge was obliterated.  If a bike falls between the A/M years and does not have any holes in the head to mount a metal head badge, then it likely had the "beaver badge"

As this waterslide decal was listed as an option for the A/M years,  I would assume the criteria for applying it at the factory would have been one of choice, as was the application of the different metal badges available at the time

I have had this badge  accurately reproduced as a correct waterslide decal, see here

http://www.vintageccm.com/content/more-water-slide-decals-1921-1925-beav...

I'm with T-mar on this one. The frame style appears English, mid 30's or Standard Cycle products,Toronto marketed through department stores using some CCM parts in the process.  The head decal is undefined to me, but could be old stock?

Wayne, even if the frame had been entirely built with newer parts, I'm still having problems with those head lugs. While I can't recall seeing an actual 1921, all the early Weston era frames I've seen have used lugless construction in this area. I know you've owned some from this era, so if you have any further insight, it would be appreciated. TIA.

I agree that the frame appears to be English or another make; but the headbadge is definately the CCM water slide beaver decal.  The beavers head is clearly discernable as is the log he sits on and you can see some maple leafs in the belt around the roundel.

In this case, as in many others, speculation is a healthy means of continuing discourse.

 There are a number of variables at play;  

I would like to think the frame is pre 1921, so I could believe the beaver decal was used pre-1921; but I have no proof, obviously;

A consistant fact was that CCM would build any bike, any colour scheme, to order, makers parts notwithstanding, indeed, many British parts were available in the catalogues as options.  British parts are used more frequently than US parts because of cheaper tariff  rates between Commonwealth countries.

Was this frame an option or was it acquired  as a result of a distress buy by CCM (a notoriously frugal company)?;

The beaver head badge appears to have been applied when the frame was new.  Was it applied at the factory?

Often, when collecters are restoring bicycles, they will go to the catalogue description as a guide, which is commendable if doing a catalogue based restoration.  I have come across numerous CCM bikes over the years which differ from the catalogue description. Some have different components, colours and accessories;f which were put together at the CCM factory(this is especially true in the case of the racers).  Point in case, I just painted my 1921 Flyer the correct catalogue description blue..I don't like it , so, I will choose one of the other CCM colours available at the time for a re-paint.

I digress, Back to the subject frame,  The only thing I'm positive about is the Head badge decal being The CCM beaver one.  Was the headbadge applied at the factory or did somebody have access to the badges and applied it?  Guess we'll never know

Here is a photo of my 1922 CCM, serial number B16333. There are lugs on the top and down tubes but the head tube is smooth.

Ok, that's weird. It's someone else's photo until you click on it, and then my photo appears.

Wayne, I agree that the head tube decal looks suspciously like the CCM beaver decal. However, it could it also just be a look-alike. Often, private label brands wouldn't go through the expense of having someone create a new design. They would simply appropriate an existing design and make some minor revisions to suit their own application. If the bicycle truly is late 1930s or newer, then there would be little risk of CCM threatening legal action over a design they hadn't used for a decade. 

When I look at the bicycle as a whole, I don't see CCM or circa 1921. However, there may be another avenue of approach. The previous owners should know when their grandmother was born and her approproximate age when the picture was taken. A lot of older photographs even have the development date printed on them. The odds are that the picture was taken shortly after the bicycle was purchased and that should give us an idea of the age.

If nothing else, we should be able to see enough to tell if the bicycle was substantially rebuilt, as the picture probably reflects the original condition. As you state, we'll never know for sure but we can proably increase our confidence level in one viewpoint or the other. 

Brian, thxs for posting the pic of your 1922. It's nice to know that CCM was using their head tuibe with integrated lugs that early.. 

Tom:  You are on the right track. If other dated family photos are available, they may be of assistance.

Don Palmer:  Could you contact the family and query them as suggested by Tom?

Cheers

let me add more fuel to the debate. The head badge is definately the Beaver and there is nothing undeneath. Given that this bicycle was passed through the family and donated to my non-profit, social enterprise "Right Bike", I highly suspect there was no tampering. If for no other reason, that there would be no motive.

The rear hub is labelled as follows CCM 37 - patent 1937

There is a piece of the frame supporting the bars labelled "Made in England" but as I understand from Tom's book, in the early days CCM did import parts to add to their assembly. I have added the photo, plus the photo of the seat lug with the serial number.

Have a look at the photographs under the forum title "1930s??? SuperCycle Twin Bar" The bike in question has the same head tube lugs as my Supercycle that had a 1947 license plate on it when I found it. More telling, it has the exact same unusual, non-CCM nut arrangement (what's it called?) at the handlebar stem, and the head tube angles outward at the very top in the same way. To see this you need to click on the photo of the whole bike to enlarge it and zoom in if necessary. Also, it has the same design of chainwheel that was the subject of much discussion in that forum thread. My Supercycle also had lugs stamped "Made in England", but it had an English front hub and an American hub brake. (I have since traded that bike for a CCM Centennial.)

Interestingly, the bike in question has a 5 digit serial number starting with A, and the Supercycle twin bar in the opening photos of that thread has the serial number A9793.

With this evidence, I am leaning toward the bike in question being made in the late '40s by one of the Toronto bike factories that CCM purchased immediately after the War (SCP / The Planet), which would explain the use of the CCM '37 brake and possibly the beaver decal.

I will try to upload a closeup photo of the 1946/47 Supercycle I mentioned.

In the late 40s, SCP used Perry rear hubs

Now I am almost as confused as before. I will try to get some back ground on age from the donor, but some clarification on SuperCycles. I know them as crappy Canadian Tire Bicycles made in Asia sold to folks looking for a cheap, poorly made bicycle. I know they go back a ways, but how far? Did CCM make them at some point? Or the bike companies bought by CCM? if so, what is the relationship to Canadia Tire? How do I get background on the history of SuperCycle?

Help! 

Yes, the subject bicycle has the the same farme characterstics, serial number format and many of the same components as Brian's Supercycle Motorbike. They certainly do appear to be from the same manufacturer.

Assuming that the letter prefix is a year indicator, then both bicycles are from the same year. In the case of the Motorbike, we know it is no earlier than 1938, as that was the first year for Supercycle. We also know that it  is no later than 1947, based on the license plate. Of the interim years, we can eliminate 1943-1945, as the manufacturer of Motorbikes  was not premitted during these years by government order. The overall appearance of the bicycle certainly fits this timeframe, while the timeframe in conjunction with the serial number format would effectively eliminate CCM as a possible manufacturer. 

Certainly, both Planet and SCP could be possible sources. Humphrey and Sunshine also come to mind, but Humphrey was using CCM sourced frames at least as early as 1937 and all the Sunshine I've seen have used a different serial number format. 

Hi Don and T-Mar. I'm sorry for the confusion. In the other post I mentioned, there are photos of 3 bikes, Alan's Motorbike, Brian's (my) single top tube with license plate, and Wayne's single tube. All four bikes including Don's have the same pattern of chainwheel. Don's, Alan's and Brian's bikes all have the same head tube and handlebar stem nut design. Wayne's is different. Don's bike has the same A code serial number as Alan's (my single top tube with 1947 license plate has the serial number 95347, but no "A"). Alan's bike and mine have the same design of Canadian Tire head badge.

I don't know the year of Alan's Motorbike, but I was suggesting that from the above mentioned clues all three bikes were made in the same time period as each other. Since the license plate found on mine was 1947 and since CCM bought SCP and The Planet after the war, my best guess was that Don's bike was made by a CCM subsidiary sometime in the late 1940s. John's book discusses this purchase by CCM after the war.

Another possibility, is that Don's bike was made by one of CCM's competitors soon before CCM bought them, and that company either sourced the "37" brake from CCM or the brake was added later. I am wondering if the decal headbadge supports this second theory, since using a decal headbadge was a wartime practice 1941-45.

Don, again, I'm sorry this is so complicated, but I am NOT concluding that your bike is a Supercycle or was sold by Canadian Tire. It might have been, but it could have been sold through any number of retailers that were selling bikes made by several Canadian manufacturers, SCP and The Planet included.

P.S. Don, before the flood of imports from Asia that ultimately sunk CCM in 1983, CCM was battling cheaper imports from England (starting in the 1940s?). This was explained in John's book. I have been told from a member of this site that some Canadian bike makers imported lugs from England to be assembled into their Canadian-made bicycles. This explained why my 1947 Canadian Tire bike had lugs stamped Made in England and a hub brake made in the U.S.. I believe that whoever made your bike also made mine and Alan's as well. Maybe someday someone will be able to identify who made that unique style of headtube and handlebar stem nut and we will know who manufactured those bikes. In the meantime it's fun playing detective. I think we can be fairly certain it was not made in CCM's Weston factory.

  The water slide decal head badge used during the war is completely different from the beaver decal.  See here

http://s917.photobucket.com/user/dobie45/library/1943%20CCM%20LADIES%20W...

As well,  the post war SCP frame differed in that the lugs were joined by a truss between the top and down tubes and  the chain wheel is not of the Williams design as on Don's bike

Like Brian said, defective work is fun but allows for conjecture until you have to bring it to Court.

While there may still may be speculation as to the exact year and manufacturer, there is sufficient circumstantial evidence to indicate it is not pre-1938 and not CCM manufacture. 

Thanks gentlemen, facinating information. Does anyone know whether there is a book on the history of SuperCycle. Yesterday I met a fellow who is in his early '70s. He showed me a SuperCycle his father bought for him in 1948 or 1949 by his estimation. It is almost rideable, but I couldn't pursuade him to let it go, yet! Surely there must be history out there on SuperCycle, and or Canadia tire?

As Tom said, its unlikely that the real origins of this bike will be uncovered.  I cannot support his conclusion WRT circumstantial evidence being strong enough to support the fact that the frame is not pre 38.  

You will find that the "pop out" head lugs on British  ladies bike frames were  in use from at least 1901( some of which are the same and some similar to the subject bike)  Take a look through "Wing My Heels" site to see ladies bikes having similar or same head lug set up.  Specifically check out the following ladies bikes..1902 Royal Enfield; 1903 Golden Sunbeam; 1903 Rover; 1914 Hazlewood; 1914 Royal Sunbeam, 1916 Royal Sunbeam, etc, etc.

https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1-www-oldbike-eu-museum/

Given the similarities in all these British built frames, including the subject frame, I can conclude that the frame could be earlier than 1938, indeed, could be from the 1921 - 25 era when the beaver decal was in use; it may even be an earlier frame.

  I have an early 30s British Cycleworks CWS with the same lugs and  which is currently a lawn ornament at my cottage,  It has been verified as such by the CWS marque specialist, Gordon Blaikie.  My format is too large to attach photos of this bike so I will send pix to John and hopefully he will work the magic

Hi Don. I am not aware of any history of Supercycle. When I bought my Supercycle, I wrote to Canadian Tire using the customer service email address found on their website. I did not receive a reply. I read in another forum thread on this site that someone else had also contacted C.T.C. with the same non-response. I have since learned from T-Mar that Canadian Tire launched the Supercycle brand in 1938, which is very useful to know. After that, I think the only history we're going to find is in the bike section of old Canadian Tire catalogues. I have seen one page posted somewhere on this site. It's possible or likely that a full collection of catalogues exists in an archives somewhere. You would be surprised what you can find in a quiet little archives. I have found interesting bicycle information at the National Archives and the library of the Museum of Science and Technology, both in Ottawa, and the City of Toronto archives. There is an Ontario Provincial archives as well, but I have not researched bicycles there.

One final note I will say, is that I'm not entirely convinced that the bikes Canadian Tire sold as Supercycles were built in Canada, some with imported lugs that say "Made in England". I don't know what the tariff situation was at that time, but I am left wondering if complete frames with headsets were imported from England and someone under contract to Canadian Tire sourced things like saddles and hub brakes to complete the package. I tried doing an image search of old bicycles on Google.co.uk looking for the unusual headset (I believe that's what the handlebar stem nut and bearings are called) but so far without luck.

In 2007 Canadian Tire "celebrated" it's 70th year of offering the Super cycle.

Sooooooo...that would make 1937 the beginning.

1938 was the first year for Super-Cycle. The confusion is because the 2007 advertising copy isn't referring to the 70th anniversary but the 70th year. When you are born, you are in your 1st year from day 1 though day 365 (or day 366 if you are a leap year baby). Your 1st birthday/anniversary occurs on day 366, when you are starting your 2nd year. So, 1937 would be correct if the advertisement and badge referred to the 70th anniversary, but they are talking 70 years of existence, which would make 1938 the first year for Super-Cycle. It's a popular way for the marketing people to advance the celebration by one year and hopefully promote a slightly earlier sales peak.

Frederick kindly supplied the Super-Cycle page of the 1938 catalogue in a previous thread (copy attached).  Note how the header proclaims, "They're NEW!".  Also worth noting are the statements,  "built in one of Canada's leading bicycle factories", "exclusive use of British seamless Steel tubing" and "equipped with the popular B.S. A. safety brake".  So, at least the first year Super-Cycles were Canadian built but with significant British content. It's also interesting to note that somewhere along the timeline the hyphen got dropped and Super-Cycle became Supercycle.  Knowing when this happened may prove valuable in future age appraisals.

My intention was not to infer that the lugs seen on Alan, Brian's and Don's bicycles did not exist pre-1938. I have no doubt that they did. However, to the best of my knowledge, these lugs have never been used on a CCM product. Since Alan's and Brian's known Super-Cycles use these same lugs (and headset and crank) it is not unreasonable to expect that they may be from the same manufacturer. Furthermore, Alan's and Don's bicycles have the exact same serial number format, right down to the A-code, indicating there is a very high probability that they are from the same manufacturer and  year, which would be no earlier than 1938, since Alan's is a Super-Cycle. This era would also be consistent with other features on Don's bicycle like steel rims, a white tailed rear fender, absence of skirt guard eyelets, chain guard style, etc.

Pending Don coming up with a dated Granny photograph, we have to weigh which is the more  probable scenario, a 1921 CCM  with atypical lugs that has been totally rebuilt or a post 1937 non-CCM product with a CCM influenced head decal and serial number format? Obviously, Wayne and I disagree on this point, which is fine. I have no problem with agreeing to disagree and still have great respect for Wayne's knowledge and opinions . Given that Don owns the bicycle, he ultimately has to weigh the evidence and decide how to represent the bicycle.

There have been a few books written about Canadian Tire. I haven't read the books but based on reviews, they seem to be along the lines of John's book on CCM, focusing on the establishment and growth of the company and the people behind it.  I believe that one of them was a CTC sponsored history for the 75th anniversary, along the lines of Dennison's 50 year history of CCM.  Try searching under Alfred and/or Martha Billes and checking the references in their or CTC's Wikipedia articles for the actual titles and authors of the books.

Tom: As do I have respect  for your opinions and vast knowledge.  Wouldn't the world be a dull place were  opinions not  be discussed, investigated, and conclusions arrived based on extensive investigation.  In this case, perhaps there will be no definative answer, but it won't be for lack of trying.

 All submissions WRT this thread have not been haphazard utterences;  they have all been researched and are well presented.  Throughout this discourse, I have learned more about the later period bikes..30s, 40s,50s, given that my main focus is the pre 1925 period.

Don, as Tom said..you are in now in the role of Soloman.

To all, thanks for this enlightening thread