Restoration Question #2: How to get stuck handle bar stems out of your old rusty bike!

My next step would be heat. Rather than use an open flame, my preference is boiling water. The heat will actually cause the stem quill to expand and get tighter but in doing so it often breaks the bonds, allowing the stem to be removed once everything has cooled. 

Failing that, I resort to driving the stem out. Turn the bicycle upside down and support the headset locknut on the jaws of a vice. Insert a 1/2" steel rod of appropriate length into the bottom of the steering column so that it seats inside the stem quill. Then drive it out by hitting the rod with a steel mallet. Of course, this assumes you are able to extract the stem expander nut through the bottom of the fork which is sometimes not possible on old frames due to small crown holes and/or pins used to hold the steering column and crown during brazing. 

If you can't remove the expander nut from the fork, you can always try driving the stem down into the fork to loosen it, then driving up on the underside of the stem extension. Use a hardwood block to protect the stem in these cases.Good luck! May Doc Morton be with you!

unscrew the handlebar screw as much as possible from the inside expender nut without separating them

then give it a good wack with a hammer, should loosen it

you should then be able to pull it out by turning the handle bars back and forth

i also found a de-rusting solution at Canadian Tire, let it soak for 24-36 hours (completely dunk it in the clear liquid, the liquid will become black), it's pretty damn good stuff

Thanks!  I will try some of these things. 

I wonder if there is any interest in having a restoration workshop, perhaps in Southern Ontario at some point in time. 

 --David Webb

I'm curious- What's the name of the de-rusting solution form Canadian Tire that you had success with, Locomotion?

Next time I'm 'down south' in Windsor, I'll pick some up. (Sorry- Couldn't resist. Detroit's north of Windsor.)

Here, the solutions are pretty wimpy. Government regulations took away all the good  ingredients so my best success at rust busting has been with Coca Cola or 80:20 transmisison fluid/acetone. Neither is very kind to metal nor to our planet's envornment.

Thanks!

Paul

http://evaporust.ca

thanks Gt

Thanks Much for the product link!

Paul

I second Locomotions suggestion - make are the jam nut is not stuck in the stem.  Mine was still stuck pretty good, I ended up placing a piece of wood under the stem and driving it out of the head tube with a plastic mallet.

Evaporust is a great product for removing rust I highly recommend it also. I use it sraight up I don't mix it as long as a guy keeps it covered it lasts quite a long time. So its well worth money

Not To Divert This Thread...

Hi All,

I certainly don't mean to divert this thread, but the stuff below is the natural follow-up for David's question will be "How do we keep the quill from becoming seized again?".  So many people in this group have been helpful to me, so I'd like to pass alnog what I've learned over the years about metal galling & seizing.

Please pardon my intrusion if this is not appropriate for this discussion.

I'm not by any means a bicycle expert. This information is based on my years as an master electrician & journeyman machine repairman. I did a lot of research with metalurgists, manufacturers and chemists over the years. I would face high voltage switches seized due to dissimilar metals and road salt spray- even 15 feet up the pole. I'd also have to deal with switches & machinery in wash-down enviroments. They would get pressure washed with chemicals & sanitizers daily. Most combinations were aluminum & steel- Similar to lots of bike quills & headtubes.

Why The Tube Gets Stuck?

When two metals meet,  usually in the presence of moisture (accelerated by a conductive medium, such as salt or other pollutants), an exchange occurs. Electricity is happening- Just like how a wet cell battery works! Electrons are moved from one item to the other & physical changes beyond the scope of this treatise happen to the metals. (Examples- Aluminum will swell. Steel will produce the familiar orange rust.) SInce we are not adding an external power source, this is called "Galvanic" corrosion. (With an external soure, it's called 'electrolytic'. But, i'm wandering....)

Steel-To-Steel galling is usually simple 'adhesion by rust". A metalurgist once likend it to 'brazing with rust'. Even using two different steel alloys can induce some galvanac action.  Steel-To-Aluminum causes oxidation of the aluminum with the resultant swelling of the aluminum alloy. We need to prevent both problems.

What To Use?

This is an often debated topic, not only in bicycle context, but in everything frm electrical to aircraft & ships. So, this is only based on what I've learned. You all will certainly know more about bike specific results than I ever will.

Anti-Oxidation Paste- We use this product on copper-to-aluminum wiring connections. It is basicaly a grease with zinc flakes and or particles. The idea is that the zinc, while allowing good conductivity, will become the sacrificial element in the joint. Therefore, the connection stays cool & does not corrode. But when using it as an anti-seize, I've found that the zinc eventually is consumed and you're left with grease. The grease wil become tacky as it dries a bit. One manufacturer also menttioned to me that it will wash out. My work shirts beg to differ! If I were to do regular maintenance on my hedset (and seat post), I would not hesitate to use this. It is very inexpensive & available at home centers. Look for No-Alox or Penetrox & similar trade names. Long term? Maybe not so great. Side Note- It is great for the threads & button on light bulbs, especially those that burn base-up. They will never stick in a socket.

Anti Seize "Silver"- This has no copper It is found with trade names like "Never Seize" or "Nevr SEEZ". It is also a grease based paste with zinc. On press fit items it is phenomenal. But, it is electrically conductive. The galvanic action between the aluminum and steel will continue. The zinc in the anti seize is the sacrificial element. With semi-regular maintenance, this should bo OK for your quill & stem. On steel-to-steel, it is awesome & very long lasting. Washout has never been a problem in my applications. It does not make a slippery lubricant.

Anti Seize "Copper"- I have been warned by metalurgists that the copper flakes in this product will accelerate the oxidation (actually corrosion) and subsequent swelling of the aluminum. Copper & aluminum are not good friends. (See Anti-Oxidation, above). If your bike has stainless steel, don't use copper. It can cause embrittlement of the stainless.

Regular Petroleum or Lithium Soap based Grease- Each product is different. I have, indeed, used plain old 'axle grease' as an anti-seize. Some work and some don't. On a bike I'd bet you can get at least a few years out of it. But when grease 'dries', it can get a bit less slippery or it may fall off the substrate, allowing moisture to enter the equation.

Synthetic Dielectric Grease-  The lubicity is very good. It insulates, so the galvanic action is stopped or at least diminished where scraped thin. It is hard to wash away. I have had good reuslts.  I use it on a spinning press-fit dissimilar metal situation on 92 year old South Bend Lathe. I can separate the parts even after 10 or more years. I also have used it on electrical cabinets & switch mechanisim that are outdoors & constantly salt splashed. One trade name is Syncro Super Lube. This particular one has PTFE in it, another diaelectric & lubrication aid.

Lanolin- This is quite dielectric. It also lubricates. it is earth friendly. But, it can be washed away with either citrus bearing soaps or very cold water. Use only pure lanolin without possibly corrosive perfumes or dyes. One trade name is Fluid Film, but it is way cheaper in small no-name tubs from people selling 'make your own cosmetics' ingredients. I use it inside my truck's rocker panels to keep rust away. Works great there. Never tried it on a bike.

My Quill & Seat Post? On the stems of each, I use car wax & polish it. Then, I apply synthetic diaelectric grease. For the steel wedge (in the steelhead tube), I coat it with silver anti-seize. (Just the steel wedge. No aluminum gets anti-seize) I also coat the bolt threads (again, steel to steel). The top of the wedge, where it meets the aluminum quill, gets synthetic diaelectric grease. Insides of all my tubes are sprayed with REM Oil. I use a goofy adapter I made that is a tube with a 360 degree nozzle. Of course, there are bike specific products that may be more appropriate (such as Frame Saver).

Note that I tried some diaelectric grease from an auto parts store once on an electrical switch. It dired up in about a month. This must be a different product. That's what I get for being a cheap skate!

About 15 years ago I used the above one-two-three punch on a bike I own that is now stored. For fun, I tired removing the quill yesterday for inspection. It came right out with no problems. The quill is clean & the head tube un-rusted. But, this bike is no longer subject to being pumeled with water, so this isn't a real-world test.

Sorry this is so long and potentially quite boring. I wanted to share what I have learned from others & from non-cycle experience. Hopefully it will prove helpful to others.

Please, let me know if I was being rude to post it in David's thread. I wasn't trying for a hijack, just a related follow-up. Also, I think we would all love to hear what you folks use on your bikes & how it has worked out for you.

Enjoy Today!

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks so much for this information.  I had no idea that the different formulas were for different applications.  I know that sounds crazy naïve, but there you go… 

I am currently disassembling my 1940 Motorbike, and with luck will be reassembling after it receives new paint.  All of it is steel to steel, though there is some aluminum castings on the pedals. 

My question is, “is it worth it to coat the threads of the assorted assemblies with anti-seize, or maybe just a smear of the marine grease I have been using to pack the bearings?”

Thanks for all the info,

Kenny

Thank You, Kenny, for your kind words.

When I was working for the "old company" The equipment I built had to comply with UL and CSA standards, as well as the National Electrical Code, fire codes, insurance regulations & more. That's what lead me to do all kinds of continuing research about anti seize pastes. Well, that plus the goal of not having the elements wreck my stuff!

There are so many kind and hlepful people on this user group, I want to 'give back' when I can.

For your bike's threaded connections, the users here would kow far more than I about what is appropriate & best for the job. They have way more bike specific experience than I possess.  But, here's my humble opinion...

Personally, on things that are threaded to tighten themselves, such as pedals (right & left hand threads), if it is aluminum to steel or other combination,  I use synthetic lubricant just to keep corrosion at bay. 

Regular "silver" anti seize should be OK if it is steel-to-steel.  But if you take them off for maintenance regularily, I don't know why bearing grease would not work to stop corrosion & seizing.

I've also heard of teflon tape or teflon bearing pipe joint compound on pedals. I forgot about it when writing the weighty tome, above (Sorry it got so long & tedious) I've used in in industrilal applications to prevent seizing, but UL gets crabby about it on electrical equipment.

For many threaded items that are subject to vibration and water, I'll use thread locking compound. I like Pro Seal, but I'm sure other brands work well, too.  I will use the removable, usually called 'blue', whenever possible. It keeps the threads from backing out and seals out moisture. 'Red' (permanent) usually requires heat or a really strong arm to break free, sometimes snapping smaller fasteners. It's appropriate for some jobs, though. 

Maybe ask the users here about the pedals in a fresh thread. They are more bike savy than I can ever hope to be. I've always slugged my way through repairs. (Until I found this great group!, that is)

Your Motorbike sounds realy cool. I like those bikes, though I've never seen one in person. in the Detroit area, I rarely see vintage CCM bicycles. I recently stumbled on a CCM Breeze for sale here. It was begging to be restored & enjoyed, but the serial number was scratched off. I refuse to buy items with questionable 'rights of ownership'.

Have fun restoring & riding!

Paul