New here and please be patient. Thanks.

I'm trying to post these pictures....

 That is a nice motor kit for the bike. You should have no trouble finding parts for that bike . I take it you mean the crank and sproket  parts .Also there should be lots of CCM 37 rear hubs around . But if you say it is early1920,s it should have a  New Hercules rear hub( arm less brake) or about 1926 they put a brake arm on them. My take on the bike is it is newer than 1923 and it would have had wooden wheels from new if 1923.

I thank you for the information.

After looking at all the brochures put on line here, I beg to differ, the Motorbike came supplied with steel wheels in 1923.

My bike does have the CCM 37 hub already.

I'm trying to decipher what was changed on it from new. Was it the seat post dated 1923 ? Or was it the hub patented in 1937?

My guess is the hub to accomodate the engine that will not be mated to a retro pedaling brake.

The paint "markings" doesn't let me conclude that the head badge was a losange in shape. I found that the Motorbike was sold with at least 5 different badges including PERFECT....it would be nice finding one.

While I haven't seen every year of CCM Motorbike, I have reservations of this being a 1923, let alone a CCM. At the very least it would appear to be severely non-OEM.

I've never seen an inter-war CCM Motorbike with actual head lugs, though I haven't seen any from the early 1920s. Typically, on inter-war CCMs, the lugs are integrated into the manufacture of the head tube, so that there are no lug collars on the head tube itself.  The lower top tube typically intersects the down tube just before they join the top tube. In the subject bicycle, there is no intersection.

The parts are also atypical for a 1923 CCM Motorbike. As already noted, the rear hub is incorrect. The front truss would join at the top, wishbone style, and mount to the upper plate via a single nut, as opposed to two discrete rods and two nuts, which was a later style. The fork crown is also atypical for the era, though it  was used on CCM economy brands. The headset is not any CCM model that I'm familiar with.  I've never seen a CCM with wire fender braces. Typically, there are formed from  flat, steels strips.

There are other alternatives to using a drum brake though they are not necessarily better or cheaper.  The only rim style brakes that will work with Westwood rims are stirrup brakes.  If you are willing to rebuild the front wheel with a drum brake, you could also rebuild the wheel(s)with Endrick style rims , provided you were willing to drill the fork crown and seat stay bridge for caliper brakes. Alternately, you could try hunting down some Phillips caliper brakes, which clamp directly to the forks and stays without need for mounting holes. Fortunately, the engine appears  to be quite light and being a 4 stroke, offers some compression braking, so should not tax the braking heavily, provided it is not ridden fast. Personally, i think my preference would still be for a drum, though I'd seriously be considering supplementing it with calipers, especially if it is going to be a rider and you're going run it at full speed.

As for whether to do a restoration and whether or not to keep the current engine/frame pairing, I would first want to be sure of what I had.  I not sure that it is a 1923 CCM, let alone a CCM or one of their brands. It will be interesting to hear what others forum members have to say.

Wow, you got me there,

I'm more familiar with automotive terms than bicycle terminology.

I'll have to hunt down most of the words that you wrote and learn about them.

Thanks for your insight.

At least the seat post is original and 1923.

If I supplement the brake drums with calipers, will I use the same brake lever?

There are already two levers on the handlebar, one for the accelerator and one for the gear shift....

If I add front and rear brakes, it's going to be quite busy up there.

Yes, it is possible to operate two brakes using the same levers. There are at least two options. One is to employ a tandem lever, which acccepts two brake cables. The other is to use a brake cable splitter. Typically these are used to operate the same brake from two different levers, but the operation should be reversible. The problem with operating two brakes from the same lever is that one will usually be operating a less than optimum effciency as both rarely have a common cable pull ratio. Of course, another option is to convert the throttle operation to a twist grip. 

Also, if you've got a seat post dated 1923, don't assume it is orignal just because it is the oldest date that you can find. It wouldn't be the first time that somebody got a replacement from a shop that is older than the bicycle. The most reliable indicator of age is the frame serial number, provided the codes are known. In the case of CCM manufactured bicycles, they are and the serial number should be on the frame's seat lug. 

Sorry about the terminology. Sometimes, you have to assume a minimum level of technical terminology knowledge, otherwise the posts would get very long with all the explanations. However, if there are any you can't find online, just post your query and one us will provide a definition.

BINGO!

I started by sanding through the layers of paint on the left side.....nothing.

On the right side though: 94248

It would be amazing if it was a 1948 It would match the Cucciolo.

Thanks for all this.

I'll take it one step at a time.

CCM serial numbers are usually stamped on the left side of the lug. Nornally, I would attribute this type of discrepancy to operator error, however the format is also incorrect. During this era CCM used 6 characters, with one being a letter.  in the first, second or last position. However, sometimes an end position letter is stamped below the number sequence. if there are space limitations. 

Now I'm stuck.

I'm trying to find who made double bar bikes around 1948.

Obviously my number does not match any CCM number schedule.

If I download here  specific photos of certain areas of my bike can you possibly identify it?

What pictures shall facilitate this?

Thank you.

Actually, the supplied pictures are pretty good. The only other thing I'd personally like is a good.close up of one of the rear dropouts (the flat frame plates that the rear wheel bolts onto) but I'm not sure that it will provide a clue. Other members may have additonal requests.

Unfortunately, we've lost the OEM crankset, which is often the best component clue to the manufacturer, Besides the fact that cranksets have a high orginality rate on old bicycles, many of the of the middle and larger sized manufacturers designed proprietary chainring patterns. Other components which may have a stamped brand name are the front hub and headset, with the latter having a higher probability of being OEM. 

 I wouldn't hang my hat on the last two characters being the manufacturing year or it being close to the year of the engine. Given the Motobike style frame, it could be anywhere between approximately 1920 and 1960. While it could be foreign, it is more likely Canadian, as the vast majority of imports were British, who were not  big proponents of motorbike style frames. Given the era, the next most likely candidates would be Humphrey, Planet, Standard Cycle Products (SCP) and Sunshine. The first three of these companies were purchased by CCM during or shortly after World War II and much of their CCM era product appears to be re-badged CCMs with cost cutting in some of the components. While I have seen some Sunshine and pre-CCM SCP Motorbikes, neither seem to match yours. However, I have also not seen enough of them from a broad time span to eliminate them with any degree of confidence. 

Beyond these four, there were literally dozens of small, short lived Canadian manufacturers during the subject era. The smaller the manufacturer, the more likely they are to use a purely sequential manufacturing number without any year code. 

You know, I REALLY appreciate this.

Here are some pictures. Please don't laugh.

I added the tail reflector as it seems by reading these forums that people know about them.

Thank you very much.

EUREKA!!!!!!

Well sort off...

I was searchinf for all sorts of headbadges because I do have sort of an imprint left over if you check the second image from the bottom, above.

I looked at Humphrey, Sunshine, Planet, thanks to your suggestions. I found a Sunshine hadbadge on Ebay and wrote to the chap for dimensions between the two holes for installing it.

I went back to my bike to check the measurements. I notice what looks like a vise grip mark on the left side of the head but none on the right. Odd I said to myself as I am a guy handy with tools (not the vice-grip though).

The paint is garbage anyway so I took a piece of sanding paper to the marks.

Lo and behold: MADE IN ENGLAND ! This narrows it down to what......150 bike manufacturers?

Good pics. The old headbadge looks to be shaped roughly like a shield. The Canadian brand that immediately comes to mind with that badge shape is Werlich but it doesn't appear to be a perfect match and I'm used to seeing Werlich bicycles with s-shaped down tubes. Hopefully, Jamie will show up. He's the best bet on this forum for identification based on the outline of the badge. 

The rear dropouts are reminescent of CCM but since CCM was 85% of the domestic cycle industry during the period in question, lots of people copied them.

I've seen lots of frames that have been repainted without the upper and lower headset cups being removed but you can usually still detect a demarcation from the lugs. Either that is incredibly thick paint or it's an integrated headset, which I don't recall seeing on a Canadian brands of the era. 

Unless I stumble across something, I've pretty much run out of ideas. Hopefully someone else has seen something like it. 

England was a popular components and frame parts source for small Canadian manufacturers. Even CCM used English components on their budget brands during the4 period in question. That stamping probably only indicates the origin of the lug itself. 

Thanks T-Mar....but did you read my last post?

Thank you,

the two screw holes are left and right. Werlich are top and bottom.

Woops, found a headbadge for Werlich on a kid's tricycle with the screws left and right....

I've seen Werlich with both mounting hole orientations. The shape isn't a perfect match for the ones I've seen but it's the closest that I can recall. It doesn't match the outlines for the badges I've seen for the other brands I've mentioned. Head badge design is rarely static, with sometimes subtle and sometimes drastic changes over the years but at his point it appears to be our best clue. Jamie is our resident expert on Canadian heade badges, so hopefully he sees this and can provide some input. 

Thank you sincerely for all your input. I appreciate it.

The frame fork fenders and truss rods look awfully familiar.   http://www.vintageccm.com/content/1930s-supercycle-twin-bar

Geee....thanks.

What to do, what to do?

You guys are keeping me busy.

Here is a page from the Canadian Tire 1938 catalog

Agreed Alan, the frame looks identical except for the serial number format, which could be an anomaly but also seems to dismiss CCM. So, made by the same factory that made Supercycle. We know Alan's is no earlier than 1938 and if we assume CTC did not change suppliers, then it is a leading Canadian manfacturer. At teast Alan's bicycle and the CTC catalogue support the initial feelings that it's Canadian but not CCM.  

Thanks Fred for the Canadian Tire advertisement i had never seen one for this bike yet. It should be noted too that the original equipment was a B.S.A. coaster brake from your advertisement in the CT catalogue, which would lead me to conclude that both of our wheel sets had been replaced at some point. Yours being the CCM pat.'37 rear hub and mine being a New Departure, but yet still coincides with the frame being stamped "Made in England" if it were to come with a B.S.A. coaster.   

As a side note be careful when taking apart the headset on these, as the bearings are not in a race but rather just placed loosley in the formed cups that are a part of the frame. I managed to save all mine and still have not got ours back together yet, and it's a job im really not looking forward to when that day comes.

Good luck with your project and your search for the Supercycle head badge, you don't see many of these and it would be great to see a few more out there that are being preserved.

You are welcome, truth to be told there is some looseness at the headset.

Does yours look like mine?

Is it hard to rejuvenate?

Thank you for an answer.

Frederick

Nice find on the Little Pup!  Is it a runner?  

Absolutely it is a runner. I doubt that the engine has many happy km's on it as the bike has no brakes.

The motor is still lead sealed by the company since 1948.

The previous owner is in Ontario so I am told.

If i recall correctly yes the headsets are the same, as far as putting it back together i have not done so yet. I was just warning you about the bearings that are not kept neat and tidy in a race, but rather they will more than likely start to spill out as soon as you start removing the top nut. So make sure you have a drop sheet or something to that effect and keep all the individual bearings that come out. Also make sure they're all accounted for too so when you go to rebuild it your not left stranded without a few bearings.

Thank you Allan,

mine is a little wobbly. I hear that a few dabs of grease will hold them in place upon installation.

I do plan to strip the bike from it's paint and probably leave it raw with a lacquer finish. Car lacquer comes to mind as it is resistant to ultra violet.  Of couse any suggestions to the proper finish and color would be most welcome. The wheels do have original pinstriping so I'm inclined just to clean them...At this time  I have ideas only, it's new for me and I'm still at the : "I like to look at it" stage. Probably a paint scheme that matches the tank, it is white/cream with a blue decal.é I don't think that I will touch that. On another forum, our good Man T-Mar does state that the Supercycle  is as good a bike as any from that period.

By the way there is a BSA hub on ebay right now if you are interested. 3 speeds, complete but dingy looking.

It is item number: 221568968357

It is quite rare, even for bicycles of this vintage, to use loose ball bearings in headsets. Given the number and size of the bearings, the labour costs for installing them typically outweigh the price increase of using caged bearings. As an example, we know from extant catalogues that CCM headsets used caged bearings at least as far back as 1918. 

Loose ball bearings in a headset are usually the sign of a headset that has been serviced by the owner or in attempt to rectify indexed steering. The substitution of loose ball bearing prevents the balls from aligning with indents that can develop in the bearing races due to riding with a loose or inadequately lubricated headset.

Headset maintenance is fairly straight forward, except for some trial and error typically involved in getting the bearing preload correct . However, before you perform the headset maintenance, I suggest you properly adjust the headset to see if it suffers from indexed steering. If so, the steering will tend to lock/self-centre into the straight forward position when the wheel is raised off the ground and the handlebars rotated. The pitting created by the balls is often overlooked by novice mechanics, so it's better to adjust the headset and perform the test before maintenance, rather than find out afterwards and have tear things apart again. 

That's a lot of advice T-Mar and I thank you for it.

Today a good buddy came over at 9 am, he is  a cabinetmaker and  the chap who got me turned on to this thing as he lent me a book on Ducati history, to finally have a good look. He could only stay a few minutes....yeah right. He left at 5Pm, after a good lunch and a lot of tinkering with the engine. He is also quite a motorbike mechanic.

Would you believe that there is a big mistake is in the Cucciolo manual? First gear is described and illustrated as second and 2nd gear is described as 1st also with the incorrect illustration showing the pedal placement in the wrong position.

The gear change is a little stiff and we decided that the whole thing isn't broken in!

The engine starts fine but there is NO WAY that I will ride it without a brake. Going around my property on pedal power alone and trying to stop at the bottom of the small incline was troublesome enough.

There are other small problems that have to be taken care of.

First I'll install a front drum brake. Then figure out how to correct the headset. There is a a small crack in/on the stem holding the handlebar, can I weld and file or is it better to change it? I have access to a master welder.

Then a rear drum brake. Of course the frame is going to be completely stripped and rejuvenated.

If I cannot find the headbadge, I'll make one, I do have access to an art foundry and casting one in bronze with raised lettering will be a small fun project.

Your opinion is invaluable.

Italian shop manuals are always interesting to use - especially if they are direct translation!  The Cucciolo was Ducati's first attempt at a mass market motor and was so successful they ended up making more than 400 000, and selling them around the world.  Left pedal forward should be low gear, right high gear.  Have fun!

Thank you Mr Toad for confirming this.

I found the user manual on the Ducatipushrodgroup site.

It was the first that I looked at and printed it. In afew days my mind got inundated with Cucciolo material.